Anime/Cartoon - Manga/Comic

[resurie]

Bleh, I couldn't think of a better subject title...

A little discussion occured in the Inuyasha thread when, Mystic I believe, supposedly mistaked Ren for a cartoon character. Or something, I'm not too sure. Which leads me to something I must get off my chest...

I warn you. You might not like what I have to say. But I'm going to say it none the less. ><

Ever get angry at someone when they say that anime is a cartoon? Or when people call manga a comic?

Really. I too used to think that anime "wasn't a cartoon". Honestly, I refer to all of it now as "animation". Because the comparison of the two is just plain silly. It's a bit annoying when people say "anime isn't a cartoon!". But *gasp* surprise surprise! What does "anime" mean?

It's simply the Japanese word for animation. It's no different than a cartoon. It's just the Japanese's style of cartoon. "Anime" is not a "special word". It's just a Japanese word for cartoon.

Same with manga. Manga is simply Japanese for comic. Which is why I'm a bit annoyed with those "Learn how to draw Manga!" books.

I find it a bit stereotypical...

Manga doesn't mean the big eyes, the cool hair, the schoolgirls, the magical girls. It means COMIC. So in all these "Learn to draw manga" books, we get to learn how to draw the big eyes, the cool hair, etc etc. But those features don't make it manga.

It's just the Japanese's style. And it's not always the way we see it. As shown in this picture below:

Tell me, which one is manga?

They're ALL manga. Notice the first picture. Does that guy have the big eyes? The cool hair? Actually, he looks quite realistic to me.

Let me say something, if someone is drawing sequential stories incorporating story and art, then they're already drawing "manga". Or "comics" or "historietas". (<--spanish word for comic.)

As you can see, this rant to going off about manga and those books. So I'll stop.

If you've seen, a lot of American cartoons are starting to get "the anime look". Why? Because it looks cool? I really don't know why. But honestly, I don't really care. I find it pretty cool. What bothers me is how the portray it. When they excess it. Like in Teen Titans, where the sweatdrop appears every damn five seconds. Even when it's not needed.

I don't know what else to tell any of you. But I needed to say something. So in conclusion!

Anime may have better plot, animation, music, characters (yeah, I'll admit that). But it's STILL a cartoon. Same for manga.

If I made anyone here upset or mad. Honestly, I don't care. This is what I think. If you don't like it, well then too bad for you. If you want to yell or disagree with me, feel free. I don't mind.

[Lobsterdeth]

You said it, resurie.

So you Otaku f*gs better shut up.

[Dessa]

Just thought I'd throw this in...

"Anime" has been officially adapted into the English language. The English (aka American) meaning of the word IS "Japanese animation." So technically, while speaking in English, refering to anime as a "cartoon" really isn't correct (neither would be calling a cartoon "anime").


Also, the actual meaning of manga is "irresponsible pictures" (or other translations along those lines). And it can be used (in Japanese) for either animation or comic art. Although, from what I understand, it's kinda rude and condescending to refer to anime as manga... but they do it all the time in Nadesico, and they're not putting anime down, so I don't know.

[StrawberryInuPie]

Well...technically...anime is different from cartoons, right? I mean, there's cartoons like Invader ZIM, Teen Titans, Family Guy, etc. and then there's anime like Shaman king, Inuyasha, Kiddy Grade, etc. etc. Theyre different to me. Probably because anime usually has a big plot and awsome characters and...blood and stuff ^^;; if you get me...its more....i dont know....its just different from American cartoons and other...cartoons from..other...countries....i'm confusing myself XD;
I see a difference....I mean yeah anime are cartoons, but i prefer to refer to them as anime seeing as cartoon i dunno...makes it sound...like for little kids. I'm weird i know.
And as for comics...i personally like to call comics like american made one comics and manga manga. Because to me 'comics' makes me think of Spiderman and stuff. Manga makes me think of......manga. ;
Anyway, thats my thought on it. But yeah Resurie you had some really good points.

[Lovely]

The funny thing is that the Japanese will sometimes call their manga works "comics" "Komiku" in order to sound fancy *laughs*.

It USED to bother me when people called manga-- comics, or when people called anime, "cartoons" but it doesn't really bother me as much anymore.

I think the reason people get upset when anime is called a "cartoon" is because the term "cartoon" very often carries the negative conotation of "kid stuff". I don't even like to call a lot of American animation "cartoons" because of this.

[Saturn]

I usually use both "anime" and "cartoons" interchangeably. They both really mean the same thing so it really never bothered me unless you plan to argue the point. I'll say "cartoons" to my grandparents instead of "anime" because I know I'd just have to sit there and explain the term "anime" to them. Then I'll get condoned for watching children cartoons...HAH!

I think a lot of people in today's society associate cartoons with the goofy comedy of Looney Tunes and Flinstones etc...the stuff little kids watch with no real point to the show. And I think when people say "anime" they want to bring themselves away from that stereotype even though they are really just creating more of a stereotype..."I don't watch cartoons, I watch anime!" Maybe it sounds more like an adult term than cartoon does.

I must say though, I am getting tired of American animations stealing the Japanese style of animation. Who mentioned that...Resurie? I forget...but I think it's more for marketing than anything. They know anime sells now, and if it looks like anime kids are probably more prone to watching it now a days then say something that looks Americanized? Is that a good term?

Maybe I should just strictly use the word "animation" from now on when talking to people. That sounds even more professional and adult than anime does. "On Saturdays I need to wake up and watch my animations."

[Takato]

StrawberryInuPie said:

Well...technically...anime is different from cartoons, right? I mean, there's cartoons like Invader ZIM, Teen Titans, Family Guy, etc. and then there's anime like Shaman king, Inuyasha, Kiddy Grade, etc. etc. Theyre different to me. Probably because anime usually has a big plot and awsome characters and...blood and stuff ^^;; if you get me...its more....i dont know....its just different from American cartoons and other...cartoons from..other...countries....i'm confusing myself XD;
I see a difference....I mean yeah anime are cartoons, but i prefer to refer to them as anime seeing as cartoon i dunno...makes it sound...like for little kids. I'm weird i know.
And as for comics...i personally like to call comics like american made one comics and manga manga. Because to me 'comics' makes me think of Spiderman and stuff. Manga makes me think of......manga. ;
Anyway, thats my thought on it. But yeah Resurie you had some really good points.

But there's also Japanese animation for kids, like Pokemon and Hamtaro. Also, remember that the Japanese culture is different from American culture, so what the Japanese consider to be for kids isn't always what America considers to be for kids, so the vast majority of those anime for teens you see in the U.S. might very well be watched by the same age group who watches Disney cartoons in the U.S. over there. Japanese animation doesn't have to always have plots, either. Azumanga Daioh doesn't have a plot at all, but does that mean it's not anime? And then there's American animated series like the original X-men which at least have something that vaguely resemble plots. Does that mean X-men isn't a cartoon?

I used to get annoyed when people would call anime "cartoons", but I don't really get annoyed by it anymore. Still, I don't like using the term "cartoons" for either Japanese or American animation because the term "cartoons" is usually associated with kiddy stuff that can't be watched by anyone else aside from kids. So, like Saturn, I'll often use the terms "anime" and "animation" interchangeably. Like, sometimes when I'm refering to a heavily edited dubbed version of a Japanese series like 4Kids' dub of Yugioh, I might refer to the Yugioh dub as being "animation", but when I refer to the Japanese version, I'll refer to it as being "anime" because it makes more sense to me to use Japanese terms when refering to the Japanese version and use English terms when refering to the English version.

[resurie]

*kicks school computer and Spanish keyboard* Where the hell is the apostrophe?? ><?!

Saturn said:

I must say though, I am getting tired of American animations stealing the Japanese style of animation. Who mentioned that...Resurie?

What? o_O Who mentioned what? Sorry, I'm stupid. -__-

*cough* But yeah, like I mentioned before, I like to refer to everything as animation mostly now. The only reason I tend to mention anime and cartoon separately is because the people I speak to about it think they have a difference.

Another point is that people today are more used to referring to them separately. I know for a fact that if I'm watching, say, FLCL, a friend will ask me what it is, I would tell them anime, but let's say I said cartoon. They would ask me "Isn't that anime?"

People today just seem to have classified anime/manga as a certain type of style. The big eyes, the crazy hair etc. If people ever see a show like that, they'll call it anime. Like Teen Titans, I'm sure a few of the non-anime people thought is WAS anime.

There's an anime in Japan that looks like an American animation. I forgot it's name, but I have it in a book somewhere. It's one that tells Japanese legends in cartoon-form. ...Or something.

And yeah, you're all right about cartoons being considered "kids stuff". That's one thing that bothers me too. What about the Simpsons? Family Guy? South Park? Are those for kids? Invader Zim too, which was taken off the air because the kiddies didn't like it (supposedly). Off topic line for a sec; Invader Zim, fjsovbweoirvb WORSHIP IT! x_X

XD; Err...sorry...but that could prove something. Honestly, if I was given the choice to watch Gundam or Invader Zim, I would choose Zim. XDD *gets pelted with cans*

It would just be nice if some of the paranoid anime fans could...damn...where are the brackets? Stupid Linux...I can't use message board features...arrgh sorry, lemme start over...XD;;;;

It would just be nice if some of the paranoid anime fans could AT LEAST admit some American shows are better than Japanese ones. I have, I think Zim kicks Gundam's ass. XD *gets pelted again*

I'm getting all ranty again. So I'll stop here.

ARGH! *stabs Spanish keyboard and Linux computer* I had to backspace AT LEAST 20 times because I kept pressing the wrong key! D:#nosmileys

[Lobsterdeth]

Dessa said:

"Anime" has been officially adapted into the English language. The English (aka American) meaning of the word IS "Japanese animation." So technically, while speaking in English, refering to anime as a "cartoon" really isn't correct (neither would be calling a cartoon "anime").

Now that's just f**king stupid. They're just calling it that cause it's the new shit with the damn kids and such. Seriously, why don't they name french cartoons "le comics"? or maybe spanish cartoons "las caricaturas"?

[Vasuki]

I think many "anime" fans are really missing out on some western cartoons of back in the day.

Actually, I can just think of one I would like to mention

Gargoyles. If you havn't watched it, do so, the first season is out on DVD now.

This show, is pretty much the most bad-ass disney show which was ever made. It has killing (sorta), violence, plot, storylines, amazing complex characters, pretty much everything most japanese series have. And some really great voice acting I must say.
Thing is, it was animated in Japan... by lazy animators, so, don't expect anything spectacular, if you listen to the comentary, you can notice a bit of the, uhm, lazyness...

Anyways, do really drive the point that I think anime just does mean japanese cartoon, I would like to bring up a couple examples.

Cybersix- popular in Canada, edited for US to the point that it was sad. But anyways, it was pretty much made by both Canada, and Japan, and you can see both styles of western, and anime if you watch the show. Calling it an anime in my opinion, would technically be correct.

Yu-Gi-Oh The Movie- The horrid, HORRID movie which 4kids pumped out, was pretty much made by, well, 4kids, and animated in Korea or something. Would you consider this anime?

In all honesty, when I want to talk to my friends in real life about the differences in anime and manga, I just say "in the show" or, "in the comic" I might say Manga every so often if I am talking to an Otaku or something, but, even then, I am far to used to english words.
While it is true Japanese stuff if usually better in many ways, it is not always the case. Break the Barriers! XD

(another ramble -_-)

[Takato]

resurie said:

It would just be nice if some of the paranoid anime fans could AT LEAST admit some American shows are better than Japanese ones. I have, I think Zim kicks Gundam's ass. XD *gets pelted again*

Well, I think most anime fans will admit that just about any American cartoon is better than Hamtaro. ^^;;

[StrawberryInuPie]

.....I...like...Hamtaro.....
^^;; Resurie, yes, i agree ZIM kicks Gundam's ass! Zim is my favorite american cartoon...next to South park...Nickelodeon just sucks so they took it off. It wasnt that it wasnt popular, cause it was. But thats off topic..
Someone said something about Azumanga Daioh having no plots. Sorry, i know some anime's dont exactly have plots, AD being one of them. But still, its anime. X-men yeah has a plot, and some cartoons do. But still....to me at least there's a difference between them and anime...i think to me its the characters...anime characters are usually prettier to look at ^^;;; Once a gain, i'm weird and confusing myself. ;

[Hana]

Well, I'm one of those people who rarely ever call anime cartoons. The way I look at it, anime is a subset of cartoons, so I just think it's better to be specific. And it's true. I try to distance myself from the negative connotations of the word "cartoon" that most of my American non-anime friends have some sort of stigma towards. Consider this. Doesn't this just seem childish?

"I watch cartoons all day!"

Yes, you don't have enough information to draw a reasonable conclusion, but one of the first things that comes to mind are childhood images. Contrast that with this quote:

"I watch anime all day!"

And people will just think you're an otaku (not sure if that's actually better than the first option XD) which is what i prefer to be seen as anyway.

So yes, anime is/are? cartoons, but they still draw different meanings within our culture. But anime will always be a type of cartoon, which is good to know, like when trying to explain the philosophy of Evangelion to my philosophy teacher. XD

(btw, Ai Yori Aoshi Enishi is yet another plotless anime)

[resurie]

Vasuki said:

Yu-Gi-Oh The Movie- The horrid, HORRID movie which 4kids pumped out, was pretty much made by, well, 4kids, and animated in Korea or something. Would you consider this anime?

Yes, I would. ^_^

My point is that anime and cartoon mean the same thing. Here's a way to get what I mean:

Say that movie is shown in Japan (why? I don't know, imagine it did!). The Japanese would still call it an anime. Because that's their word for animation. And the movie is an animation.

Notice how movies are usually referred as to "animated movies" not "cartoon movies". Though a lot of people may call them that way. But I've mostly heard "animated movies".

What makes an animated show is NOT where it was created. A lot of American cartoons are dubbed into spanish, and they're called what cartoons are called in Spanish; "caricaturas". It's the same with anime, if an American show was dubbed into Japanese and aired there, it would be called anime, wouldn't it? Unless the Japanese have a fun word specifically for "american cartoon".

I'm writing too much in these posts....oh, and I forgot to mention, what Dessa mentioned about manga literally meaning "irresponsible pictures". I knew that already, XD; but I forgot what it was and was too lazy to look for it. x_X;#nosmileys

[Dessa]

Takato said:

Well, I think most anime fans will admit that just about any American cartoon is better than Hamtaro. ^^;;

Dessa's top anime OF ALL TIME
#1- Harukanaru Toki no Naka de ~Hachiyou Shou~
#2- Gensomaden Saiyuki and Saiyuki RELOAD manga
#3- Tottoko Hamutaro


pthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!