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Post by Saturn on Mar 7, 2004 11:00:14 GMT -5
I've just been lurking on here, but I have a question. Probably good for Lovely since she knows the Japanese version of Shaman King. But if anyone else knows please feel free to respond.
Are all the cheeseburger references replacing a Japanese food reference like bowls of rice? If not then are they replacing some sort of Japanese joke that is going on throughout the series? Or is 4Kids just randomly using cheeseburgers throughout this show as a running gag that just didn't exist in the Japanese version?
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Post by Lovely on Mar 7, 2004 13:03:14 GMT -5
Or is 4Kids just randomly using cheeseburgers throughout this show as a running gag that just didn't exist in the Japanese version? It's an added 4kids running gag. And an annoying one at that. While it's true that in the original Japanese version Yoh liked to eat, he normally wasn't all that specific about it. EDIT: Oh yeah, I love your subject title for this thread Saturn ^o^ . |
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Post by Yohko on Mar 8, 2004 19:18:58 GMT -5
Dunno if this is off topic or not, but I gotta say that I love the subject title for this thread too. :D
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Post by Saturn on Mar 8, 2004 20:10:15 GMT -5
^_^ thanks
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Post by Necromancer13 on Mar 8, 2004 22:11:20 GMT -5
*strokes skeleton*
me three
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Xiah
Cute Newbie
Yes, I am a loner. Don't bother me unless you expect me to respond
Posts: 6
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Post by Xiah on Aug 22, 2004 6:49:22 GMT -5
 True...Yoh mostly never mentioned burgers. Except it get's rather annoying in the dubbed version when you hear alot of it.
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Post by Katie on Aug 22, 2004 6:55:11 GMT -5
Yeah and the Burgur places..............
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Len
Shaman in Training
Got Milk?
Posts: 83
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Post by Len on Aug 27, 2004 12:42:45 GMT -5
let me put it this way,
just take it as a mirror of the real world...
is there not the "great wall of McDonalds" in this world?
i find the hamburger comments "funny".
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Post by Lovely on Aug 27, 2004 19:29:05 GMT -5
Len... erm... I have NO idea what your post is trying to say 0_o ...
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Len
Shaman in Training
Got Milk?
Posts: 83
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Post by Len on Aug 27, 2004 21:29:56 GMT -5
um... ok.. let me explain. I am one of those fans generated by the edited english version of the original shaman king; therefore, i do not have the original HAMMERED DEEPLY into my brain to the point where most of this "editing" upsets me. From the outside looking in, (true... it seems to "forget other nations") yohs hamburger comments was to bring a bit of comic relief or just be silly. However it does have realism to it; today... everywhere.. the great chains of fast food restraunts tie coil the continents. It was not strange or annoying from to me at all. So even taking place in Japan (city names give a good hint of location, sometimes structures and "backround/geography" too) it is not a surpise for him to mention hamburgers. but why is it so annoying? did it replace an important line he should of said? anyhow... I dont get why its annoying. It should be something that if you dont stick your ear in the TV you shouldnt be bothered. a little off the topic comment: a lot of the complaints and radical attitudes towards the editing is basicly because of the way the show was introduced. Its understable. Most of you guys i assume watched the original or manga. Being so, you have incripted all those characters you love well into your head. When the change came along, you feel "affended". However, all these complaints are at the end pretty pointless. If you dont like it.. why watch it (nonetheless remind yourself everyday in such discussions)? Did it replace the original you watch in existance? I was not informed in any way so... and I assume also due to request, they even have now came out with those non-edited dvds so that should calm things down. But if you watch it publicly on television by a company who targets kids... why not expect such change? not all censorship level are the same. not all companies go by the same "rules". I being from the outside is VERY HAPPY that such event happened. I do not have cable and such. Assuming someone else baught and distributed Shaman King... i might of NEVER saw it. Atleast exposure to it allows one to research more if they like it. I loved SK... without ever seeing the original which I DONT doubt is great/greater! Mainly most of these radical reaction is the only thing annoying i see. I search for a SK community... and i get a riot?! sometimes i just say... "Im a fan of Lenny too" and get my head bitten of by wolves howling "DONT CALL REN LENNY!". Obviously none of you had done or have a chance to do so yet  , but i think you get the point. Im sorry Lovely... but even your comparisons at times reads disapointingly like a complaint form...  And most of the complaints are so.. simple... things you can let go... most common seems to be the name and voice... I feel bad for 4kidsentertainment because it seems they got " a lot" of folks with spears and pitchforks at their throat... but even if they could of done better, i think they did do a good job of choosing a great show to to intoduce or play for us. sorry if i got carried away. but thats the picture i got from reading so much of this type of stuff. |
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Post by Lovely on Aug 28, 2004 8:22:10 GMT -5
Why discuss it? Why make episode comparisons? Why complain?
Because I want people to know the truth. What they do with that knowledge is entirely up to them.
I suppose in some ways you could be right, in some ways, it IS pointless. But maybe not, the fact that we (and by "we" I mean anime fandom in general) have shown an intrest in the original series is the partial reason why an uncut dvd is going to be released.
When I first started watching Shaman King, I actually didn't expect much. But as it went on, I fell in love with the good hearted and quirky characters, the (for the most part) tightly paced story and the many references to different cultures, religions and myths.
A lot of this has been lost in the dub. I won't condemn you for liking the dub. To be fair, the Shaman King dub is a better show than a LOT of childrens programs these days. However, I won't deny that I am simply in LOVE with the original version and I just want to share that love with others.
I am also, in general, a fan of (acurate) anime dubs. I am filled with happiness when an anime show that I like is treated well by a company and when the new voices just "click" with the personalities of the characters. I am not pleased however, when personalities are changed to be more "sarcastic" as it were and voices are picked to suit these new personalites. My love for dubs and voice acting in general makes me a bit more critical of perfomances.
So why do the hamburger comments bother me? For one, it's a blatant attempt of the dub to hide the fact that the show takes place in America. While it's true that hamburgers are all over the world now, the food itself is VERY American.
Another (lesser) reason it bothers me is because it is often inserted as a joke where there was either no joke previously or where there was perhaps an even funnier joke.
Is it silly to be annoyed by the line? Perhaps. But it's just the way I feel about it.
For the record. Ever since the whole "Cardcaptors" debacle I normally don't watch "adapted" anime on t.v, because I KNOW I will be offended. It is for that reason that I will not be watching, One Piece, Mew Mew Power (Tokyo Mew Mew), Sonic X, etc...
However, I continue to watch and write episode comparisons for the Shaman King dub. Why? Because people seem to apreciate it and because it is my hope that this will drive up sales of the uncut DVD.
I'll continue because I feel strongly about it. That's it really.
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Len
Shaman in Training
Got Milk?
Posts: 83
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Post by Len on Aug 28, 2004 10:43:57 GMT -5
When I first started watching Shaman King, I actually didn't expect much. But as it went on, I fell in love with the good hearted and quirky characters, the (for the most part) tightly paced story and the many references to different cultures, religions and myths. A lot of this has been lost in the dub... When the FoxBox first showed the preview for Shaman King, it was definately something different in my opinion. I had never seen a show with such a concept. It was very new. I did not know what to expect so I allowed it to take its course. However, here is the part where the split comes from. You fell in love with the characters you were expose to. Those like me love the characters we were exposed to. For me, progressing to the original doesnt effect me much. There would be no deep regret of what 4Kids have done, and even if the original characters (from viewing original clips.. with subtitle of course) are better in ways.. they remain a bit foreign (obviously not what I am use to). That is what i mean by having them "incripted". You and eventually I will have our minds set on what we like. Change would be "offensive"; however again, if you dont feel like downgrading, dont downgrade. I feel strange that some cant just accept or ignore the changes in character. I started from the dub and learned about the original version and can easily accept both versions; it doesnt bother me. Why isnt that possible for those from the other way around? Again, how did it RUIN the show?! The original is still there. Still availible. Did 4kids buy out SK completely? Is it now "fully under their control"? I did not hear so; inform me otherwise if so. You see, that is my reason for calling such complaints pointless. It doesnt and shouldnt affect you; it does and did affect those like me... and for me i take it a bit more personal i guess. Infact, its a positive things by generating fans isnt it? on a side note and a little example of some hostile degree of this "love for the original". What angered me the most is the Petition to "Stop 4Kids". (this might be sort of funny to you ;D) Lets just say I am deeply angered by... um.. how should i put it (warning... adult lanaguage used... in japanese) "HOW DARE THOSE KISAMAs ARE TRYING TO TAKE SHAMAN KING FROM ME!" anyway, that was one of the most radical things ive seen. anyway, As a person of another race and still remaining of another nationality, I too would enjoy the mentioning of other nations. It would not hurt to hear the name of my homeland. Regardless of that, the location is still reconizable. Again, i like to emphasize the city names and even location's description. It gives a pretty good hint of it not being in America. However, the show does air in America, and foriegn terms may be reduced to simplify and make the show more "familiar" to American viewers. Why would that be a crime? Again, a good amount of site I went to had some of these similar "themed" complaints. So why do the hamburger comments bother me? For one, it's a blatant attempt of the dub to hide the fact that the show takes place in America. While it's true that hamburgers are all over the world now, the food itself is VERY American. Another (lesser) reason it bothers me is because it is often inserted as a joke where there was either no joke previously or where there was perhaps an even funnier joke. Is it silly to be annoyed by the line? Perhaps. But it's just the way I feel about it. This part disturbs me a bit: "it's a blatant attempt of the dub to hide the fact that the show takes place in America. While it's true that hamburgers are all over the world now, the food itself is VERY American. " First off... I do beleive... you mean its a attempt of the dub to hid the fact that the show takes place in... Japan? or atleast at first? Otherwise i do not understand that statement and therefore annuling the rest of the comment below. Also... complaining about a food because its "VERY American" sound racist to me. But to change it to say Fried Rice or Sushi would only emphasize another stereotypical statement/image. To me... i rather have it stay hamburgers than have those 2 images show... (IMO its alteast poking fun at America's trait of some sort, if one would to take it that way). Regardless, again, if you dont have you ear glued to your tv, it shouldnt be so annoying or noticable. This also just points out the "incripted mind" statement again. Your not use to the new "line". Yoh no longer shows his "laid back self" by constantly stating say (something like) "everything will work out fine".. though he still do say such comments... instead he turns attention from things with jokes and ... well eating activities ect. Dont get me wrong... he is still very much his laid-back self... People will look and learn about the original (the "truth"?) themselves. It isnt hard; I found out in minutes in image search of SK which displayed dvd covers and titles ect.. Having "hate the way 4kids did this and that" discussions doesnt help. Let me put it this way. I was/am one of those who seek to learn more about Shaman King. When I read things, i want to find information, not the 100 repetative reasons why 4Kids "sucks/ruins/ect". Lovely, just to also state out, this isnt about your comparisons. More about the radical attitude. SOME of your comparisons were stated as an example of those common complaints, but these messages were not generated from reading your complaints; they are from reading and searching A LOT over the net and only having bumped into these (IMO) stupid "road bumps". Your comparisons are (so far ive found) most "informative" of the other episode information or "episode guides" as others have listed... considering compared to the others, yours does have the "least complainting comments" so far, though not entirely absent of course. In the end, dont you feel such radicalness a bit... wrong? unnecessary? just a waste of time? I do... and i wish i can change many minds about it. I dont need to change the opinion. In some areas i do agree. Mainly what seems to be an overboard attitude... because it seems it has become this bad. |
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Post by Lovely on Aug 28, 2004 12:08:23 GMT -5
O.k, I think I understand what you are trying to say. To be honest, I dislike EXTREME radicals as well. For example people who hate ALL dubs I think don't really have a right to nitpick about dubs in general. Examples of comments that I've heard concerning various shows would be someone complaining that since "All american dubs are horrible, so the upcoming such and such show will have a bad dub too." Deffinetly not an opinion I agree with. Oh yeah, and thier was a petition to "Stop4kids"? Heh... yeah, that is kind of funny ^_^;. Concerning people being mad at 4kids specificly. Well, I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that 4kids in the past had never subliceced thier series. In other words, no un-cut releases. This seems to be changing a bit (thankfully). Still it can be disheartening to see a favorite show get changed and then have kids bother you about it. I think it just causes people to get defensive. I'm just assuming though. Concerning my hamburger comment. Yeah, I meant it concerning the dubs attempt to try to hide the fact that the show takes place in Japan. I didn't mean it in a racist way at all. Hamburgers are as American as Apple pie! (which.. I think apple pie originated with the dutch, but we'll just ignore that ^_~. ) I think I'm MORE annoyed by the fact that the hamburger comments are (one of the many) ways to hide the Japanese influence. I'm not annoyed because I dislike American food, I get annoyed because they assume that thier audience isn't smart enough to figure that the animation is Japanese  . Anyhoo, to be honest, the hamburger thing isn't THAT big of a deal. I just keep bringing it up because it's the topic of the thread.... Oh, and for the record, you won't find TOO many people that are "radicals" as you say, on this board. A good number of people are fans of the dub actually (no matter how much I try to stop them ^_~. kidding .) As long as you dub fans can present your ideas in a clear and easy to read and backed up manner I doesn't REALLY kill me or anything. Oh, and when the uncut sub comes out you should really give it a chance. For the music at least (as I'm sure the voices will throw you off quite a bit at first.) It really is a fun experience, even with the dub on your mind ^_~ . |
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Len
Shaman in Training
Got Milk?
Posts: 83
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Post by Len on Aug 28, 2004 12:56:21 GMT -5
(off topic a bit): Lovely, I accually downloaded a lot of clips and music along with some "people" made "music videos". Infact, 3 from you. Braveheart (both versions) Chimi Moyo (spelling?) Joh Batsu??? (spelling?) Though i cant say all the songs i ever downloaded that is SK themed are good, the music is good (i also like the english shaman king intro.. easy to learn to sing and catchy  I am sort of strange when it comes to music. Ever since a year ago, i began to like instruments... chorus is fine... but i rather not hear human words.. I enjoy pianos either in the backround or mainly in the songs too! Of course modern style music with other instruments is just as great. So when i listen to SK music even, i mostly pay attention to the music itself and not the person singing... (sound familiar?) About that petition, it was specificly Shaman King related... "stop 4kids from airing and destorying shaman king" or something like that. last i checked about 400 signatures... (I DONT WANT TO LOSE SK ON MY CHANNEL!  ) |
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Post by Katie on Aug 29, 2004 3:20:23 GMT -5
(0_0)um.....Hey yeah I like the title too ^-^
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, but i think you get the point.
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)