UNCUT SHAMAN KING DVD'S!

[s91/S-chan/DoomStick]

gack the price but i guess i'll thak this as good news

[Lovely]

God, Saiyamans article is filled with so much mis-information amongst the facts that it can almost be seen as a work of humor.

So lets straighten things out a bit shall we?

1-4kids is NOT releasing the DVD's. They sublicened the series to FUNIMATION for the dvd release.

2- The Fruits Basket release, wasn't a "sweet deal" made with the Japanese liscence holders. It was an experiment on Funimation's part to see if the disks would sell well. It didn't. Even though the disks ARE a good value. A lot of consumers didn't pay attention to the episode count and only noticed the slightly higher price.

3- Anime DVD's with 4 or so episodes are RARELY only $20. The SRP is normally around $25-$30. (with prices being a good deal cheaper online)

So that makes each episode about $6.50 each.

Therefore, with online discounts and the like, the price of each Shaman King disk won't actually be all that high. And if we look at it mathimatically, the price per episode is almost the same as other releases.
The main reason that a low episode count is annoying is because this is a long series. And it's a pain to have that many DVD cases sitting around for one series.

[Lord Cyber]

Lovely said:

Anime DVD's with 4 or so episodes are RARELY only $20. The SRP is normally around $25-$30. (with prices being a good deal cheaper online)

This is totally off-topic for this forum subcategory, but one of those outliers is Silent Mobius. 9 Episodes for 13 bucks. 3 disc set. My BESM supplement for roleplaying shoujo recommended it...so yes, a supplement to a roleplaying system recommended an anime series to me.

[GreatSaiyaman777]

"1-4kids is NOT releasing the DVD's. They sublicened the series to FUNIMATION for the dvd release."

I already knew that and pointed that out an earlier editorial. Guess who decides the number of episodes per DVD? It sure ain't Funimation.


"2- The Fruits Basket release, wasn't a "sweet deal" made with the Japanese liscence holders. It was an experiment on Funimation's part to see if the disks would sell well. It didn't. Even though the disks ARE a good value. A lot of consumers didn't pay attention to the episode count and only noticed the slightly higher price."

Because the Japanese worry about reverse-importing, details like episode numbers have to be consulted with them. Funimation couldn't just put on 6-7 eps per DVD without their permission. Therefore, they had to have made a deal with them. Also, Fruits Basket did well enough to help prop up manga sales significantly to make one of the top sales list.


"3- Anime DVD's with 4 or so episodes are RARELY only $20. The SRP is normally around $25-$30. (with prices being a good deal cheaper online)

So that makes each episode about $6.50 each."

You should shop somewhere else that's less expensive then because I get mine for $20.

[Oversoul]

Lovely said:

God, Saiyamans article is filled with so much information amongst the facts that it can almost be seen as a work of humor.

How would information amongst the facts make it a work of humor?

[Lovely]

Woops, I meant MISinformation ^^; .

Concerning the episode count per DVD. It IS decided upon by Funimation. I mean, they ARE releasing it, and this wouldn't be the first time they've released a series with 3 epi's each. This is becoming Funimation's recent style. It's true that the Japanese worry about cross-importing, that's why we normally don't get a release of a series until AFTER the DVD is released in Japan. A lot of Japanese colectors tend to want thier DVD's right away soo...

And I DO buy my anime DVD's for a cheaper price. Online, or at Best Buy sometimes. "SRP" means "Suggested Retail Price". In my orginal post I even said that prices are a good deal cheaper online.

I wasn't clear about Fruits Basket though. It sold well enough, but not as well as Funimation expected. While the series is VERY popular with manga and anime fans, it didn't sell as well with the "casual" anime watcher due to the high price and the fact that the "casual" anime watcher didn't seem to notice the episode count.

[GreatSaiyaman777]

Well, you have to look at the DVD deal.

--------
Headline: Anime gets a Texas touch
Japanese cartoon genre thrives in distribution by Fort Worth firm
Relevance: 1
Writer: DAWN WOTAPKA Staff Writer
Published: August 30, 2003
Page Number: 1D
Word Count: 1174
Edition: SECOND










http://gold.classifieds.dallasnews....nime.b4d29.html

"Anime gets Texas touch
Japanese cartoon genre provides breakout hit for Fort Worth studio


10:19 PM CDT on Friday, August 29, 2003

By DAWN WOTAPKA / The Dallas Morning News

Cat chases mouse. Train squashes cat. Cat resumes chase.

That's the cartoon Gen Fukunaga grew up watching – animation he labels "squash and stretch," with simple plots and characters his young mind couldn't identify with.

So it's no surprise that while visiting Japan, he became intrigued with anime, a distinct cartoon genre starring spiky-haired, big-eyed, little-mouthed characters pursuing quests often spanning hundreds of episodes.

"In America, you might watch a cute episode and say, 'Ha-ha. That's great,' " he said. "But in Japan, you actually get involved in the lives of the characters that were on the show and had to see the next episode."

He recalls wondering: Why isn't this in America?

Two decades later, Mr. Fukunaga made sure that it was.

He parlayed his childhood intrigue into FUNimation Productions Ltd, a Fort Worth company that acquires anime, airs it on television and resells it on VHS and DVD.

Dragon Ball Z, the company's breakout hit, became a pop-culture phenomenon and a staple on the Cartoon Network's afternoon Toonami block.

"That cartoon was one of the very first to sort of break down the door into children's cartoons as far as anime goes," said Sean Akins, Toonami's creative director.

That led to a deal with Bruno Bonnell, chairman and CEO of Atari Inc., which publishes video games based on FUNimation cartoons.

"His idea to bring some of Japan's most popular animation to the U.S. proves that he has a very rare gift – the extraordinary talent to know what kids will like and the passion to try new and innovative things," Mr. Bonnell said.

That passion also helped make Mr. Fukunaga a lot of money, though he won't say how much.

He will reveal that in 2001, gross revenue grew 23.9 percent and in 2002, itjumped 25.1 percent. Depending on the crucial fourth quarter's performance, FUNimation's revenue could increase as much as 25 percent this year, Mr. Fukunaga said.

"We're kind of a quiet little company here trying to dominate the anime industry," said Mr. Fukunaga, president of the 9-year-old private firm with 85 employees.

But the soft-spoken 42-year-old cannot yet claim success. His biggest challenge lies ahead – proving his tale is more than just a lucky break that an influential uncle helped him get.

Competition


That won't be easy. Mr. Fukunaga beat the pack when he realized the cartoon style's mass-market potential a decade ago, but now he's one of more than a dozen companies vying to secure – and profit from – importing anime titles.

And not all of them are independents.

Cartoon giants with deep pockets including the Walt Disney Co. and Warner Bros. are battling for a chunk of the anime industry's roughly $450 million-per-year revenue pie.

Savvy Japanese creators, meanwhile, are demanding higher prices for their work, Mr. Fukunaga said.

Until recently, America showed little interest in the funky cartoons, whose roots many say lie in the rubble of World War II. After nuclear bombs devastated Japan, the shattered nation sought entertainment. As Japanese artists melded ideas from American soldier's comics with their own style, manga, or comics resulted. The cartoon version is anime.

Now the art form is a big part of Japanese culture read by all ages, said Yumi Hoashi, brand manager for Shonen Jump, a San Francisco-based magazine that prints Dragon Ball Z.

"It's more sophisticated than the good vs. evil and the good guy vs. the bad guy," Ms. Hoashi said. "You can relate to these characters."

That's what enthralled Mr. Fukunaga as an eighth-grader. While his father, a Purdue University professor, was on a year sabbatical, the family relocated from Indiana to Japan, his parents' homeland. During that time, family members immersed themselves in the culture – Mr. Fukunaga even attended Japanese schools.

The youngster returned home, where he later earned bachelor's and master's degrees in electrical engineering from Purdue. He worked several jobs and then attended Columbia University's MBA program.

He wanted to work for himself.

Mr. Fukunaga contacted a well-connected Japanese uncle, one of the producers of the original Power Rangers series. He pitched his business plan, which paired importing the shows with toy sales. The uncle, who did not make a fortune from Power Rangers, introduced Mr. Fukunaga to company executives eager to mine a new market.

Mr. Fukunaga viewed 30 titles. When he saw Dragon Ball Z, a series about the world's strongest martial artist defending Earth, he became excited.

"I jumped all over that. I just saw the opportunity right there," he said.

Mr. Fukunaga quickly raised $2 million in venture capital and, in 1994, launched FUNimation.

After a few episodes were translated and recorded in English, Mr. Fukunaga began pitching the Americanized Dragon Ball Z to the networks. He had no luck.

"They had very much a not-invented-here attitude," he recalled. "They didn't get it. Nobody got it."

Though he teetered on failure, he refused to admit defeat.

"We just kind of persevered and kept plugging at it," Mr. Fukunaga said. "We just knew that we had to stick it out just a little bit longer."

Cartoon connection


Then, in 1998, the up-and-coming Cartoon Network agreed to show Dragon Ball Z daily.

"That was crucial. ... That obviously was a big factor in propelling the awareness to the public," he said.

This helped Dragon Ball Z's ratings skyrocket. FUNimation signed licensing deals and added two Dragon Ball Z titles, Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball GT, to its portfolio.

But consumers are fickle and easily bored, warned Chris Byrne, an independent toy consultant.

"These things come and go because we're a culture that really wants to have what's new and novel and entertaining, and we've conditioned our kids to expect the next big thing," he said.

Mr. Fukunaga knows that, so he's racing to expand FUNimation beyond Dragon Ball.

He's increased his cartoon roster to include Detective Conan and Yu Yu Hakusho. He also licenses everything from bed sheets to action figures for several cartoons.

There's a distribution network that, after selling more than 15 million VHS tapes and DVDs in three years, earned him prime shelf space at Wal-Mart and Target. Finally, on Tuesday, FUNimation released a full-length Dragon Ball Z movie featuring Pantera tunes.

This success helped FUNimation link with 4Kids Entertainment, the rival behind Pokémon. Under the alliance, Mr. Fukunaga distributes titles including The New Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Yu-Gi-Oh .

4Kids liked Mr. Fukunaga's David vs. Goliath attitude, said Alfred Kahn, 4Kids' chairman and CEO.

"Disney and WB are great companies – they have huge libraries. How much are they going to dedicate to you?" asked Mr. Kahn. "We felt that FUNimation had more to gain than Disney."

Of course, the big profit is in unearthing the next megahit. For that, he's competing with an 800-pound gorilla, he says, and his uncle can't help him.

There's always luck.

"There's a magic in the content," Mr. Fukunaga said. "Nobody can predict it."
---------


Basically 4Kids didn't have their own distribution system so they decided to find someone. Fukunaga beat out Disney and WB with his "David" attitude and also probably because him and Al Kahn have so much in common. ("birds of a feather flock together")

What it basically means is that Funimation uses their distribution system to sell 4Kids's DVD's, keeps a little bit of money for each DVD sold and gives 4Kids the lion's share. It saves 4Kids the time/cost of building a distribution system, and helps marry the interests of the two companies.

As for uncut, cut, episode numbers, 4Kids and the Japanese licensors have the most say and Funimation the least. Funimation did talk 4Kids into releasing uncut gradually after a while, but Funimation don't have sole authority over episode counts or which animes can be released dual/uncut. For example, they couldn't release the first 25 episodes of Pokemon subtitled by themselves or on one whole boxed set of it without first getting permission from 4Kids or other interested parties.

[Lord Cyber]

Both parties of this debate have still failed to show any proof whether 4Kids or Funimation gets to decide the episode count.

I'd assume someone would have to read the contract stated between the licensor and distributor.

Please don't post articles that large GS777...we do follow the links that you've posted in the past...although the link at the top of this post doesn't work at all...

That article was a bit skewed...it made Funimation sound like they were the independent "good guys" of the industry and everyone else was the "villain" vying for their profits. It makes it sound like Dragon Ball Z being aired on Cartoon Network was the first thing Funimation ever did.

I realize the author is writing for a non-anime audience but I really didn't appreciate this line:

"Until recently, America showed little interest in the funky cartoons, whose roots many say lie in the rubble of World War II. After nuclear bombs devastated Japan, the shattered nation sought entertainment."

WTF...I don't know where she came up with THAT, but it made me lose respect for her article.

LC

[Lovely]

lordcyber said:

Both parties of this debate have still failed to show any proof whether 4Kids or Funimation gets to decide the episode count.

Seriously. Either way, I give up. It's not really all that important anyways. And it's kind of off topic of what I was saying in the first place (that 3 epi's at that particular price point, isn't big difference financially speaking from 4 or 5 epi's at a higher price point.)

Now concerning the comment about anime coming after WWII. That actually refers more to manga in the form we know it as today. After the war, Japan was low on money, but people still wanted entertainment. The "story comics" of Japan came out of this era (with artist/writers such as Osama Tezuka). Manga was just cheaper to produce than other forms of entertainment.(Source-- Manga! Manga! The World of Japanese Comics by Frederik L. Schodt.)

[Lovely]

I found out some more release info on the Shaman King dvd's from Anime on dvd.com

Shaman King Vol. #01 - $19.98 - 10/19/2004
Shaman King Vol. #02 - $19.98 - 10/19/2004
linkie

You know, when Fruits Basket first came out the SRP for it was about $40 for 6-7 episodes. It's almost like they are trying to replicate that release style, but have it on seperate disks. Kind of weird really ^^; ....
Maybe I should just buy some thinkpacks.

[Lord Cyber]

Lovely said:

Now concerning the comment about anime coming after WWII...

Sorry Lovely, my concern was her, "...After nuclear bombs devastated Japan, the shattered nation sought entertainment..."

I didn't appreciate her logic of Hiroshima bombing = birth of manga...it'd be like equating the destruction of Pearl Harbor to the rise of big bands...it was a poor choice of logic, made no sense, and bordered disrespectful.

Her article has gaps...that's what I'm trying to say...she doesn't say that anime came from mangas...or that mangas came from comics that were a cheap form of entertainment during the occupation of Japan...she's saying that nuclear devastation created anime...it's not even a half truth...it's totally flawed logic...

Her article is designed to inform the non-anime local public about a hometown hero named Gen Fukunaga and how he's made something of himself...

That's it.

The only merit this article has to GS777 is that it points out that 4Kids is the licensor and Funimation is the distributor. Which we all already knew...

GS777, why did you post this article???

LC

[Lord Cyber]

Woah! Thinpaks rock! Thanks for the link Lovely! I have got to get these!

www.americal.com/pd/311231.html

Americal has them for 16 bucks for 50...

LC

[GreatSaiyaman777]

I posted it because it details the DVD deal between Funimation and 4Kids and that's what was being talked about. You shouldn't get angry and blame me if the person who wrote the article was misinformed because the person who wrote the article wasn't me. That's like shooting the messenger instead of the person who originally wrote the message. You should complain to the newspaper author instead.

Besides, if you think that's bad you should read several other DBZ articles out there. The mainstream media usually messes stuff up and gets "fed" a lot of what they say from who they're interviewing. The best example of this would be the infamous Dallas Observer article. Also, now that you mention it Gen does have a habit of depicting him and Funimation as heroic in every article he appears in, heh heh.

[Saturn]

GreatSaiyaman777 said:

I posted it because it details the DVD deal between Funimation and 4Kids and that's what was being talked about.

I completely disagree with this statement because that article's main theme was to talk about the history of FUNimation. The only thing it says about 4kids is:

This success helped FUNimation link with 4Kids Entertainment, the rival behind Pokémon. Under the alliance, Mr. Fukunaga distributes titles including The New Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Yu-Gi-Oh .

4Kids liked Mr. Fukunaga's David vs. Goliath attitude, said Alfred Kahn, 4Kids' chairman and CEO.


It really doesn't tell us anything more than what we already know. And it surely doesn't detail anything except FUNimation's history.

[GreatSaiyaman777]

"There's a distribution network that, after selling more than 15 million VHS tapes and DVDs in three years, earned him prime shelf space at Wal-Mart and Target. Finally, on Tuesday, FUNimation released a full-length Dragon Ball Z movie featuring Pantera tunes.

This success helped FUNimation link with 4Kids Entertainment, the rival behind Pokémon. Under the alliance, Mr. Fukunaga distributes titles including The New Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Yu-Gi-Oh .

4Kids liked Mr. Fukunaga's David vs. Goliath attitude, said Alfred Kahn, 4Kids' chairman and CEO.

"Disney and WB are great companies – they have huge libraries. How much are they going to dedicate to you?" asked Mr. Kahn. "We felt that FUNimation had more to gain than Disney.""


You're missing two paragraphs. It explains the size of Funimation's distribution system and it also explains the specific reason why 4Kids chose Funimation, which you didn't know before I posted it. The only details that are missing are the specific contracts, which usually aren't made public anyway.

In any case, the rights to uncut/dual versions of any 4Kids shows belong to 4Kids and Funimation can't get those rights without their permission and buys it. Kind of like with One Piece- unless 4Kids is in favor of it then Funimation can't release an uncut/dual version of it at all. And if one is release, 4Kids won't just "sell" all the rights off to Funimation and Funimation will keep all the money for all uncut/dual One Piece DVD's sold- don't forget that it'll be dual version and would include an "uncut" version of the 4Kids dub.

Because 4Kids will have a money stake in all uncut/dual DVD's sold, and because they originally gave Funimation permission, other details like episode counts will most likely fall in the realm of 4Kids's hands. Besides, shows like Yu Yu Hakusho have been getting 4-episode dvd releases each for the later volumes (instead of just 3 and 4 for earlier ones) so it'd seem very out of character to Funimation's usual style to stick to almost solely 3-episode formats for other long series such as Shaman King and YGO, assuming that that decision was solely a Funimation decision.